Comments on: A New Approach to Internships? https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/ Art and technique of sound design Sun, 09 Aug 2015 17:34:45 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.2.8 By: Joe Miuccio https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/#comment-381275 Sat, 21 Feb 2015 18:16:16 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=29071#comment-381275 Thanks for starting this dialogue. I’d like to share my experience. When I got into the business in 1990, I had several co-workers come to me and say; “stick with me kid, and I’ll teach you everything I know”. Because of this generosity, I have always been compelled to spend proper time mentoring my interns. Unfortunately what I see in the industry today are companies that abuse interns for menial jobs to fill voids in staffing. I have an intern starting in a few weeks and I have painstakingly created an extensive lesson plan for her. This lesson plan goes beyond signal flow and sound design, into the realm of what the audio schools don’t teach. Client interaction, studio etiquette, running and marketing a business, will all be covered. One of my long time friends (and one of my original mentors) from the first company I worked for wrote an amazing book that accomplishes filling in the blank spots. Its the only book I know of its kind. I highly recommend it to audio interns and people entering the business. Even though it comes from a picture editing perspective, all filmmaking disciplines are taken into consideration.

Nonlinear Editing: Storytelling, Aesthetics, & Craft by Bryce Button

Future plans for my company, AUDIOPRONETWORK.COM will encompass virtual mentoring, as I feel it is all but lost in our industry. This is so important to me because I believe it will make the industry better for everyone, and giving back feels good.

There are some important federal laws that should be taken into consideration when taking on an intern. This excerpt is from Forbes.

Under federal law, every employee in America is entitled to a minimum wage, additional compensation for overtime and certain other benefits. An employment relationship will also have consequences for the employer relating to worker’s compensation, discrimination laws, employee benefits, state labor laws and unemployment insurance coverage. For these requirements not to apply, the employment relationship must fall under applicable legal exemptions.

Here are the six factors considered by the Court:
1. The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment.
2. The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern.
3. The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff.
4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded.
5. The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship.
6. The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.

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By: AudioIntern123 https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/#comment-378275 Wed, 11 Feb 2015 19:30:56 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=29071#comment-378275 I think there should not only be a discussion about the value of internships for both parties and the industry in general, but also a discussion of the very real exploitation of interns in audio post and in media in general. I am very fortunate to have had some great mentors, and some great internships. I have also gone through some terrible ones, where emotional, sexual, and $$ abuse/exploitation occurred. I think the current model of unpaid, unregulated internships has got to go. I think there are so many reasons to offer at least a stipend. I understand that pockets aren’t deep, but the talent you are bringing in on an unpaid internship isn’t necessarily the best, just the few who can afford to not get paid. I fear that not even seeing your interns on a daily basis might just make it easier to exploit them.

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By: Enos Desjardins https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/#comment-373974 Thu, 05 Feb 2015 13:27:39 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=29071#comment-373974 Yes Shaun…as you say the internship with Tim was more of a mentorship really. I mean I am yet to meet him in person…we were all in other countries far from New Zealand so ofcourse the more standard day to day activities that interns tend to do like making coffees, dong errands and cleaning up was never part of what we did. It was really straight mentoring. Also, due to the nature of the internship there would be times where Tim would get busy so we would not be that active for a couple of weeks and then pick up.

One thing that was for sure was that though we did learn things like the thought process behind laying out sessions and tracking/editing/etc… a lot of the focus was placed on storytelling, script analysis, etc… We were all expected to be using Protools (as that is what Tim uses) and we were all expected to be able to use Protools with no problems…this wasn’t a place where he going to be teaching people Protools! We were all also expected to have access to or own some form of a Protools rig…however at no point did we ever do any work with or for him…nor did we even send over our stuff for him to look at…

Anyways, I really feel that it can easily be done…these remote internships that is. Ofcourse I will always believe that there is no substitute for being in the same space and learning on the job,etc… But in the current climate of how the industry is run…these sort of remote collaborations make a lot of sense and happen already in the freelance working side of things…so why not apply the same thinking to internships…or mentorships…

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By: George https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/#comment-373903 Thu, 05 Feb 2015 09:34:47 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=29071#comment-373903 In reply to Joseph Hauser.

I’m not so sure about those requirements. When I started to work commercially back in 2010 I only had a laptop, a 25 key Midi Controller, a Zoom H4n, a pair of decent headphones and an old version of Adobe Audition. I slowly invested in better gear/software as I grew and at no point I felt that it was impossible for me to do my work.

Film is also not the only avenue into the industry. Nowadays it’s easy to get in touch with video production studios, marketing studios, game developers and any other professionals who might use an audio intern or who don’t even know they need to hire an audio professional. There’s also a host of learning resources available to anyone who’s interested.

At any rate, the picture is not a grim as you paint it. The barrier to entry is already low enough.

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By: Shaun Farley https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/#comment-373661 Thu, 05 Feb 2015 00:39:43 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=29071#comment-373661 In reply to Tim Prebble.

I had forgotten that original post, Tim. Thanks for clarifying!

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By: Tim Prebble https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/#comment-373565 Wed, 04 Feb 2015 21:38:44 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=29071#comment-373565 In reply to Shaun Farley.

Henning – when I started out, to own a recorder, mics or even the most basic sound editing setup was literally impossible. That is no longer true – a portable recorder + a not recent mac + a secondhand mbox with protools and you have enough equipment to learn a LOT.

Frankly if someone applying for an intern hadn’t even made that commitment I would suggest they have too much to learn & will frankly waste most of their internship learning HOW to use an app, rather than WHY. Whats the big risk in someone investing their savings in their hobby???? Doesn’t everyone do that?

Anyway I’ve had a few emails asking when my next internship is – I have no plans for any future internships and have briefly explained why here:

http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/re-interns

re labelling
The first blog post I ever made was “Need a mentor?’ – it explains what I was aiming to achieve..

http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/need-a-mentor

afaik it is/was a mentor/intern relationship, but heres the thing: the form it takes is totally up to the people involved. I have had local actual interns & trainees before, and was interested in pursuing something quite different to that.

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By: re Interns | Music of Sound https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/#comment-373548 Wed, 04 Feb 2015 21:20:07 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=29071#comment-373548 […] an article appeared on Designing Sound mentioning the virtual interns I ran a few years ago, I’ve had a bunch of emails & […]

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By: Shaun Farley https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/#comment-373419 Wed, 04 Feb 2015 17:32:33 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=29071#comment-373419 In reply to Joseph Hauser.

Your points read off like a list aimed at the largest game developers. While some of them may be in the position to act on those, there are many smaller developers (not to mention independently owned companies working in different media, like linear post) where the bottom-line budget and cost of keeping the doors open simply do not allow for a higher instance of paid internships or apprentice level jobs. This is not an attack on your ideas, I’m merely trying to provide some perspective. I know many audio post houses that actively try to foster new talent. There are limits to what they can do though. In fact, there have been a number of times in my career where those types of companies were looking to hire junior positions as opposed to people like me. They could only afford someone with more experience on a freelance basis when things got hairy. Rare was the opportunity for full time employment; so it’s not something that afflicts only the entry and junior level jobs. Also, while there may be a higher demand for those other positions you mentioned, there’s typically also a (roughly) proportional growth in the number of people trained and applying for those jobs. The industries we work in are highly competitive. If anything, that’s one of the things I think students and graduates don’t have an accurate understanding of…and it’s unfortunately very hard to get across in its full weight until they’ve experienced it themselves.

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By: Shaun Farley https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/#comment-373415 Wed, 04 Feb 2015 17:20:50 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=29071#comment-373415 In reply to Henning Hein.

Referring to it as an internship isn’t accurate, as what he did was more akin to mentorship. Just look at Enos’ description. I don’t think anyone would argue that a student or young professional MUST have equipment for this sort of scenario (though with tools like Reaper, which are free for non-commercial uses, that argument starts to become moot), ACCESS on the other hand certainly does help (note also that ownership is only one form of access). The important point here is to provide more opportunities for young designers to be fostered and directed. Timothy is trying to start a conversation towards that end.

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By: Joseph Hauser https://designingsound.org/2015/02/03/a-new-approach-to-internships/#comment-373376 Wed, 04 Feb 2015 16:19:04 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=29071#comment-373376 The ratio of audio students to available jobs (and internships included) is so skewed, one would need to think twice before joining the industry. Look at company job postings. For every 30 software developer openings there are 8 visual artists jobs and 0 – 1 audio production jobs. That is a scary bar chart to look at if we made one.

Visual artists need one computer, a tablet and Adobe Photoshop with free brushes to get going. Audio artists need a computer, Pro Tools, speakers, headphones, a MIDI controller, expensive plugins, expensive recording equipment, etc. to get going.

It’s a much more expensive job with less opportunities available and less consideration for production budgeting.

My point is this should not be so, and the professional community is capable of changing that.

– Offer MANY MORE paid internships (whether in person or virtual.)
– Offer MANY MORE apprentice level jobs (talent + passion >= experience.)
– Reduce hardware and software prices. (Students have no income.)
– Let production and management understand that audio delivers 50% (at least) of the product experience, and deserves much more than 1 – 6% of budget. Make every director understand like Christopher Nolan.

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