Comments on: The Details That Matter https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/ Art and technique of sound design Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:29:13 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.2.8 By: Andrew Lackey https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/#comment-192718 Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:29:13 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=26718#comment-192718 In reply to Randy Thom.

I really enjoy the viewpoints here, and work in much the same ways people in the artist camp describe. I agree its counter productive to have a semantic discussion about art vs craft from this point, but the one thing I’ll add because I don’t see it mentioned in the discussion is the sense of purpose and responsibility I feel to the vision of a project. It educates me, inspires me, sends me on crazy field recording sessions and provides me with a wealth of experiences I would never have in my life had the project not been brought to me. That vision IS the muse, and I feel like it’s bigger than me, my cave of perceptions and the creative opportunity space available to me prior to a project’s arrival and discovery. I find this aspect of our work exhilarating, and want to promote it over the internal forces that drive designers. When I work this way creativity is literally an afterthought.

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By: Randy Thom https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/#comment-191175 Sat, 26 Apr 2014 16:22:00 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=26718#comment-191175 Thanks for the great responses, critiques as well as agreements. It’s certainly true that none of us in film/video/game sound are lone wolf autonomous artists, free to do as we like. If you want to keep working in these industries you have to serve the client first and foremost. On the other hand, most of our clients, especially the bright ones, prefer if we come to them with a coherent sonic “vision” based on what they’ve told us about their desires for the project. It’s wise to be prepared to cover all bases quickly if necessary, of course, so we make sure that the object being picked up in the background has been, or quickly can be, sonified. But we don’t present the client with five alternates for every sound. That just makes us seem like we’re flailing without a point of view.

The differences between “art” and “craft” are probably impossible to define. My working definition is that I use craft to make art. A great craft piece may be elegant, and flawless in a sense, but it may lack in the “intriguingly mysterious” department. Great art for me is intriguingly mysterious above all. It asks more questions than it answers, and they are the kinds of questions that compel you to want to know more. And, as I think I may have have said in this sound forum before, using different words, the most mysterious and compelling aspect of almost all works of art come to us artists in the form of a mistake, or an accident when we’re sweating away at the craft work on the project. We aren’t smart enough to invent art using logic, but sometimes we’re smart enough to recognize something wonderful when it falls into our laps. A great craftsperson knows how to avoid accidents. A great artist knows how to use them.

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By: Shaun Farley https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/#comment-190910 Sat, 26 Apr 2014 06:57:07 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=26718#comment-190910 In reply to Andrew Lackey.

That’s why I said “can” instead of “does.” I have no doubt that you are passionate.

To simplify…I just feel that the term “craft” implies a more structured, by the numbers, approach to the work which it describes. Certainly, there are tasks where that description is perfectly accurate. However, I don’t feel the term can encompass the moments where we are asked to truly create, to add depth to the narrative, or explore the depths of our own aesthetics to serve an idea or emotion that can only be described in abstract terms. Any time you leave a piece of yourself in a film/game/etc., you’re working in the realm of art. I also feel that can be done while serving, to quote your words, “the spirit of a project and it’s true visionaries.” The overall piece certainly is not your or my artistic vision (on that we are in total agreement), but your vision IS a part of it. Art and design are about decisions. Decisions don’t necessarily get in the way unless your ego is informing them. If you can keep your ego out of it, then you can create art in service to another…in service to a larger work.

…and now I’ll stop being argumentative. ;)

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By: Matt Cavanaugh https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/#comment-190756 Sat, 26 Apr 2014 03:43:15 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=26718#comment-190756 Fantastic piece! To branch off the idea of “impressionism”, I would submit that some of the most successful sound designers present a sonic “caricature” of reality. I’ve found this hyperreality of sound with image makes a very compelling story even more dreamlike, as demonstrated many times by Mr. Thom himself. I would also concur with the request for more op-eds in the future. Thanks!

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By: Andrew Lackey https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/#comment-190720 Sat, 26 Apr 2014 03:04:37 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=26718#comment-190720 In reply to Shaun Farley.

I’m deeply passionate about sound design and think its the greatest thing ever. Any negative associations created by calling it craftsmanship are not intentional. Sound can be art, but the kernel of inspiration in the majority of films, games, plays etc is simply not rooted in the sound design anymore than its rooted in the costume design, lighting design, vfx or hair. If the argument is that we are all artists in a collaborative, I say take a good look at which way the prevailing tide of influence flows on a project to see if that’s true. I’ve had projects where my contributions influenced and even inspired changes in the overall work. But even in those examples to say the film or game is my artistic vision would be an overstatement. I don’t think this harms the working relationship whatsoever with a client. I think it’s healthier to put my personal artistic desires aside in order to fully serve the spirit of a project and it’s true visionaries. I am still passionate, I draw deeply from life experiences and I have a vision for the design of the sound, but the actual artistic boss is still calling the shots.

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By: charles maynes https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/#comment-190634 Sat, 26 Apr 2014 00:27:04 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=26718#comment-190634 hey Randy!

this was a really, really juicy bit of thought- I thank you for sharing it, and I don’t even feel like I have the will to comment until it bounces around my brain for a good while….

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By: Shaun Farley https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/#comment-190623 Sat, 26 Apr 2014 00:04:21 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=26718#comment-190623 In reply to Andrew Lackey.

I find a flaw with this logic. I have personal friends who are painters. People who are often commissioned to create a painting on a specific subject or theme, and creating those commissioned pieces can involve a process of revisions. The client will come back and say, can you make this section brighter, or, “I’d like there to be more gold in these fish scales” (an actual quote). Is the painter then less of an artist, because she is working within a client’s vision? A person is not less of an artist (or just a craftsperson), simply because they are creating in service to another’s vision. Art can be individual and collaborative. I think that it is a narrow mindset to consider our work simply “craft,” and one that can fundamentally alter one’s approach to the creative process in a negative way.

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By: Enos Desjardins https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/#comment-190593 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 23:03:38 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=26718#comment-190593 Very true! As a sound fx editor one often feels like we have to put in all possible sound elements for every scene or moment in a film. If we do a scene and have not layered in that much stuff I sometimes almost feel like I am not doing my job! But this is not the reality…ultimately what matters is the story and sound, if anything, should focus the story and create a sort of ‘sonic depth of field’ to guide the audience from a moment to the next. I recently have had several chances to mix stuff that I also edited and designed and as much as fx editing is about putting in…mixing is about taking out. I do believe however that as an fx editor on films where I am not mixing I feel I have to provide all possible content that may be needed and the mix can then dictate what is taken out. But when I have a chance to edit fx on a film knowing I will mix it I definitely enjoy being able to really edit for the mix and orchestrate things in the edit knowing what stuff I will probably not need and so on. Ultimately its about telling the story with as little as required…whether that is editing in a lot and then removing or editing selectively even prior to the mix. Great post Randy and I totally agree regarding comments we often get from clients that sometimes makes us feel that they really don’t get what we try to do and how deep of an art form sound design can be!

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By: Andrew Lackey https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/#comment-190460 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 18:21:09 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=26718#comment-190460 Interesting point of view, and I really like the perspective of doing only what’s necessary to frame a scene so the audience can impart their own experience into it. Scott McCloud illustrates (literally) this concept beautifully in “Understanding Comics” using pictures with varying degrees of detail. I’m commenting to challenge the idea we are producing art with our soundtracks though. I’ve contemplated the art vs craft question many times (even wrote about it for Designing Sound). Ultimately I think we are craftspeople and the role of artist belongs to the creative lead(s) of the project. Painters generally have all the skills necessary to produce their artistic vision, so I think its a difficult analogy to relate to. A painter could be complimented on brush technique (a detail) and that would still have an intrinsic relation to the artistic vision. I think of other multidiscipline artforms like architecture. I’m a huge fan of the Greene and Greene Brothers craftsman homes from the early 1900’s. They are works of art. The feeling I get being inside one is special. And the level of detail is extraordinary, but secondarily important as Randy points out. I’m only interested in the detail, because of the amazing emotional impression it made on me. That is the intrinsic inquisitiveness of humans to things that inspire them. Had I done the art glass or wood work in the Gamble House and received a compliment, I would expect it to lean towards remarks on the details I created, because the gestalt of the piece was not my central role. We are contributors and our contributions get noticed. We are the secondary agents of the artistic vision, so that makes sense to me. That said, I love it when a compliment does reflect the artistic intent behind it. It means we nailed (for that person at least). But if a compliment or analysis doesn’t reflect it….I chalk it up to the complimenter not having a clear idea of why a detail contributed to the experience. That’s most likely due to their inability to associate it, but there’s also the chance that a detail WAS so remarkable that they don’t associate it with the whole. Great topic Randy…Thanks for sharing.

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By: Justin C. https://designingsound.org/2014/04/25/the-details-that-matter/#comment-190443 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 17:47:55 +0000 https://designingsound.org/?p=26718#comment-190443 As a sound designer who was obsessed with details and is now realizing the elegance of the less is more approach this article just hits home for me…its always about the emotion!

Please write more op-eds like this Randy, your wisdom is much appreciated.

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