Hi Tim

Really interesting article. Yes, it’s a bit late in the day for a reply but I have just come across it.

XY does not in fact record LR because you are not recording discrete LR channels. XY records upto 180 degrees depending on the XY angle you choose -60,90,120. Therefore if you then add a centre mic and bring up the level during mix down, all you will do is reduce the width of the stereo image to mono. This is because you are not recording LR discretely but are using the main XY pair to record an angle. Your ‘phantom’ centre channel image created with the XY pair will now see more that 60degrees on either side of it pulled into the centre because of the cardioid pattern of the added centre mic.

Recording discrete LCR is very different and cannot be achieved in XY + C.

It’s important to remember that ‘stereo’ recordng microphone techniques like XY, ORTF, DIN, EBS etc record angles.

regards

James

[…] have been recording straight to stereo on my 744 but would like to look into pos […]

Thanks for getting back to me. After lots of discussion, tests and head scratching I’ve taken the plunge!

I’m getting a cinela Albert LCR, XY, ORTF rig with 2 Sennheiser 8040s & an 8050 in the centre. I hope this will give me plenty of flexibility in the field. I can also take one of the mics to use as a mono on a boom., with an Ambient Floater (no longer available) to help with handling noise.

Thanks again for a great article (& comments!)

Sorry for the late reply, I have heard several recordists using the Audient add on, and it seems to have worked well. The new Rycote Lyre suspensions seem to work well, I haven’t ever handled a Cinela, so I’m afraid not much I could say there.

The Pearl is a decent mic, but I think you’d have better luck with a Sennheiser shotgun, or Schoeps, and the add-on Audient. You’d get the benefit of the directionality of the shotgun, and still could turn it into stereo or LCR with the Audient!

Thanks for posting such an interesting article, which, with all the related comments, has made fascinating, and sometimes confusing reading.

I’m a foley supervisor and sometimes recordist, and find we are increasingly using location foley in our projects. On my last shoot we had the footstep artist holding a DPA 4017 on a boom in front of her, whilst performing, as well as an MS boom and an ambient XY rig. We recorded an ton of great material which was then mixed with carefully edited studio recordings and sync sound.

The mono boom was very useful but, if anything, too dry and not dissimilar to the studio recording, which rather defeated it’s purpose..

Ideally, we would use an MS rig on a boom to be held by the footstep artist, whilst performing and master it to pseudo LCR to give a bit more width and variation to the recording, as you suggest in your article. Unfortunately, MS rigs tend to be cumbersome and / or susceptible to handling noise.

Do you have any thoughts on how to best approach such recording and what rig might be most suitable?

Have you got any experience with single mic solutions for ease of use eg Pearl MS 8CL or the Ambient Floater to reduce handling noise. Do you have an opinion on Rycote v Cinela?

I think the best solution is getting out into the field and testing as many options as I can, it’s just a case of finding the time and the kit!

I’d get the MKH30. But there is one more option, cheaper and easier to install than the MKH30, check out

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/629674-REG/Ambient_Recording_ATE208_SET_ATE_208_SET_Emesser.html

This could be a good option as well

Thank you so much for replying Tim,what mic will you choose for ambience recording AT BP4025 xy (or) Mkh30 with mkh60 Ms kit.If you have to choose from these 2 only.

Hi DInesh, sorry I haven’t replied to the email you sent to me at the ranch, been very busy! The AT4025 is a very nice mic. I have one of those. Not a bad mic at all for general use. Adding a 30 would also work, you’ll need to find a Rycote or something to hold both mics in.

No, unfortunately you cannot get stereo from just the MKh30. Well, in a way you could, it would be 180 degrees though, and as soon as you started to pan or move the image around, it wouldn’t sound very nice I don’t think. You really need a forward facing mic to go with it, to do MS properly!